Champagne Socialism

[peter]

Posted from the UMP stronghold of Montpellier...SECOND HIGHEST LOCALTAXES in France .....brace yourselves.

Georges Fresche will not be forgotten ?

At least you've got a 4 line tramway to be proud of ...

All Nimes has got are some trees that have been felled - or not - in preparation for a Mass Transit system.

[gurubarry]

The 5th Lane is coming too Peter ....and even staunch UMP members have begun to realise the folly and start to criticise the acts of flagrant self promotion and excess.
Anyone for a free concert , statue of Lenin , new Town Hall, Archives, free festival for homosexuals,divorcees,one legged dwarves,homeless gerbils? You name it it's donated...except a proper transport system, . Car parks closed, roads blocked, existing ring road bisected by tram lines,businesses ruined by the tram project, huge free junkets, and even sponsoring of a commercial TV series that has now been scrapped after one series....of course, it's OUR money they play with .

I love the climate and the people, but I'm not proud of the ruling socialist party or it's policies ,which to me, smack of a communist regime similar to North Korea.

But I'm not entitled to vote...so I can't effect change .

And the sun was lovely today .....reminds me of the Labour Liverpool Labour Party joke . "I see the sun's out......is it official?"

[Christopher]

The 5th Lane is coming too Peter ....and even staunch UMP members have begun to realise the folly and start to criticise the acts of flagrant self promotion and excess.
Anyone for a free concert , statue of Lenin , new Town Hall, Archives, free festival for homosexuals,divorcees,one legged dwarves,homeless gerbils? You name it it's donated...except a proper transport system, . Car parks closed, roads blocked, existing ring road bisected by tram lines,businesses ruined by the tram project, huge free junkets, and even sponsoring of a commercial TV series that has now been scrapped after one series....of course, it's OUR money they play with .

I love the climate and the people, but I'm not proud of the ruling socialist party or it's policies ,which to me, smack of a communist regime similar to North Korea.

But I'm not entitled to vote...so I can't effect change .

And the sun was lovely today .....reminds me of the Labour Liverpool Labour Party joke . "I see the sun's out......is it official?"

Sounds reasonable. Then again I've only just finished lunch.

[gurubarry]

Was it a FREE Lunch ?

[Brian and Helen]

The 5th Lane is coming too Peter ....and even staunch UMP members have begun to realise the folly and start to criticise the acts of flagrant self promotion and excess.
Anyone for a free concert , statue of Lenin , new Town Hall, Archives, free festival for homosexuals,divorcees,one legged dwarves,homeless gerbils? You name it it's donated...except a proper transport system, . Car parks closed, roads blocked, existing ring road bisected by tram lines,businesses ruined by the tram project, huge free junkets, and even sponsoring of a commercial TV series that has now been scrapped after one series....of course, it's OUR money they play with .

Hey, move 900 miles north and you could be enjoying the splendours of the democratic and popular people's republic of Newham - but with more rain, a sodding great Olympic park in your backyard (complete with embedded missile systems) and a transport system which makes yours look like a veritable Nirvana.

Brian

[gurubarry]

I was there Monday....and as a West Ham Fan am a real Socialist supporter ...LOL ...Good old Socialist Newham are giving the Club £400000 of taxpayers money after the olympic debacle ....wonder who will pay it?

Maybe Georges Fresche left it in his will .

(and a free tram pass for everyone over 85 if accompanied by their Granny)

[Brian and Helen]

a West Ham Fan

Oh, I didn't realise the full depths of your despair - my deepest sympathies.

B

[gurubarry]

We're Goin' UP ! ....with £40000 of taxpayers money....Montpellier should get a bonus from the PS for winning last night too

[peter]

The Telegraph would say this, but it was predictable :

The toppling of Nicolas Sarkozy by François Hollande, the first socialist president to lead the country in 17 years, has sent ripples of fear through the wealthier arrondissements of Paris.
Their new president may block the eurozone austerity advocated by Germany's Angela Merkel, but he is not opposed to his richer citizens feeling the squeeze.
Mr Hollande plans to implement a 75pc tax rate on earnings over €1m (£800,000), on top of a 45pc rate for people making €150,000 or more. He is also expected to raise "wealth taxes" on property assets and end his predecessor's tax incentives to lure bankers back home.

More : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/glob ... rance.html

[gurubarry]

I've saved this weeks "Gazette" with all the promises and threats made by the PS . Interesting reading next May I think. Cameron is having the same scenario ........ another 4 year phase?

Just read it's cheaper to send Greeks by Taxi than on the train .....or tram

[Christopher]

The Telegraph would say this, but it was predictable :

The toppling of Nicolas Sarkozy by François Hollande, the first socialist president to lead the country in 17 years, has sent ripples of fear through the wealthier arrondissements of Paris.
Their new president may block the eurozone austerity advocated by Germany's Angela Merkel, but he is not opposed to his richer citizens feeling the squeeze.
Mr Hollande plans to implement a 75pc tax rate on earnings over €1m (£800,000), on top of a 45pc rate for people making €150,000 or more. He is also expected to raise "wealth taxes" on property assets and end his predecessor's tax incentives to lure bankers back home.

More : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/glob ... rance.html

They quote all these ideas as if they were bad things. Eh?

[gurubarry]

LoL One Mans' meat is another Mans' cow .....

[peter]

There doesn't seem to be many of us left paying tax in France these days ?

Eggs Golden Kill Geese Lay etc

[Brian and Helen]

They quote all these ideas as if they were bad things. Eh?

They are! Totally counter-productive and grossly unfair.
I'm not in that league (by miles), but I certainly would have no intention of sharing my hard-earned with the great unwashed.

Brian

[Christopher]

They quote all these ideas as if they were bad things. Eh?

They are! Totally counter-productive and grossly unfair.
I'm not in that league (by miles), but I certainly would have no intention of sharing my hard-earned with the great unwashed.

Brian

Tough. Bwahahahahaha!

[Brian and Helen]

That's a bit childish, Chris, but I'm relieved that when the howling mob is at your gates you'll willingly distribute your wealth and possessions to them.

I'm not in the super-league financially so it doesn't affect me, but France will be the loser. Already the estate agents of London are being beseiged by French people (and you can bet it is the same in Brussels and Geneva) seeking to escape the threat of Hollande's rhetoric. So instead of getting perhaps 40 or 45% tax the state will get nothing - not quite the result Holande was expecting, I imagine.

You can't have a modern-day state where even the reasonably well-off get soaked, because they will just move elsewhere (or at least move their assets elsewhere) - that's what a global economy means, it truly is global. The English politicians have learned that, but the lesson has yet to spread to some overseas quarters it seems.

Brian

[Brian and Helen]

(Duplicate post deleted)

[Christopher]

Sarkozy has said 'Eff the poor' for the past five years, just like his predecessors of the previous 12 years; tough shit if the rich get to have a speedboat or two less for the next five years.
Stop believeing in trickle-down economics; that's not their money trickling down, they're peeing on you.

[hesfordj]

This political argument seems to have become focused on the distribution of wealth. True socialism isn't about that, it's about distribution of benefits to enable those currently at the bottom to enjoy a standard of living a bit closer to the average of the country (or system).

the 75% tax does sound a bit counterproductive because those earning over 1M (on paper) probably have the means to avoid it. 45% on earnings over 150k isn't excessive. To be honest, all that happens is that the companies that pay those kind of wages just put up their charges to enable them to pay the people they want to keep or, as has been said, make moves to avoid paying taxes by relocating or restructuring. Similarly if you are self-employed and liable to a higher rate tax you will take steps to avoid paying it. Nobody likes paying more tax.

I do believe in trickle-down (and trickle-up) economics, If you don't accept that wealthy people eat in nice restaurants, use taxis, buy luxuries and make home improvements which employ and put food on the table of thousands of workers in those kind of jobs, you're blind. If someone can afford a speedboat, that money has gone to the people who make the parts for speedboats. There is nothing wrong with that. If a government thinks it's unfair that anyone should buy a speedboat and takes the money off them to spend "more wisely" the chances are they are making a big mistake.

All men are not made equal and all men certainly do not perform to the best of their abilities. Some are better at earning money and gaining the lifestyle they want than others. That's why we need socialism. But if the system prevents the more able from achieving their goals in order to try to make all men equal, it will fail. That's not socialism and it's not human nature either.

[Christopher]

Oh well as long as the speedboat industry is alive and well we can all breathe a sigh of relief.
You're going to need to produce some facts to support the idea of trickle-down economics working; it doesn't, but over to you to prove it.
As for enabling restaurants to stay in business, ha! It's enabling a few people to exist on minimum wage, nothing more. I'm guessing we should be grateful for the crumbs that fall off the tables of the rich? Frankly, I think you're deluding yourself. Because, as you say, the rich are rich enough to avoid paying tax anyway so why tax them at all? Perhaps a VAT rate of 100% on speedboats would be a good idea? I use speedboats as an example, by the way, after someone I know who works in the City of London for a big American bank told me that, what with the economic crisis and all, he was now down to his last speedboat. Obviously he's kept the three jet-skis because otherwise the kids would have nothing to do when they go to their beach house at the weekend.
viewtopic.php?t=5613 and scroll down a bit to see how restaurant economics actually work.

[hesfordj]

Do you really not believe that having wealthy people spend money benefits everyone in that system?

Just to take restaurants for an example, if your customers have more wealth, you can afford to put prices up, you can pay your suppliers more money for the food and drink, reward the staff better, be more creative with the cuisine, perhaps even employ extra staff. That all has a knock on effect. It makes a lot more sense than taking money off the wealthy restaurant-goer and giving it directly to the unemployed waiter or subsidising the farmer who grows the salad vegetables.

Begrudging the wealth of your customers is a strange attitude for anyone in a job which relies on them spending that money.

[catalanglais]

It's enabling a few people to exist on minimum wage, nothing more.

Sorry, I do not believe that the staff in high end restaurants are paid minimum wage. The quality of restaurant that Jon is talking about is the type of restaurant that employs the best of the best. You do not get that by paying SMIC.

Begrudging the wealth of your customers is a strange attitude for anyone in a job which relies on them spending that money.

I totally agree.

[gurubarry]

Interesting take on economics here . Christopher rants and raves but offers no ideas....true Socialist/Communist, the rest of us just want a LIFE and are not earning or stealing enough to be able to support our local drug addicts/criminals/big fat gypsy families, as they are accustomed to .
Idealism is really cool when you are making money for nothing by buying and selling other peoples houses,and the chancellor stands up and declares "The end of boom and bust", but when the excrement hits the oscillator, it's not such a bona idea .
The ONLY system that WORKS is Honesty. Honest days pay for an honest days work .... eventually someone HAS to MAKE something. We can't all be day traders and hairdressers and estate agents or politicians ...(.as in France )
The BBC news was very honest with it's assessment of the problems facing the World economy I thought , and we will be living in "Interesting Times" to quote my favourite author, who it seems ,isn't writing satirical science fantasy after all .

I DID enjoy my Rant ...Ithankyew...I'll get me coat.

[Christopher]

First, if anyone thinks that most people working in any sort of restaurant, gastronomic or otherwise, is earning more than the SMIC well, you're deluding yourself; the fact that you don't believe it to be true doesn't make it so.
Secondly, now that the discussion has descended into rudeness and people making up my position for me and then criticising me for it, I'll bow out; I can't and won't discuss along these lines.

[Christopher]

Just read it's cheaper to send Greeks by Taxi than on the train .....or tram

Not true, and almost certainly wasn't true when it was first made up in 1992. (Source: BBC More or Less program, Radio 4).