Champagne Socialism

[Brian and Helen]

Because they're married to someone who does? What do i win?

Dix points, Chris! How about a bottle of Socialist champagne? Or Badoit, as the rest of us call it.

Brian

ps, fair deal, now let's rephrase that as "households"

[Christopher]

Can't afford Badoit, we drink Lidl's finest sparkling - water and Crémant, in fact. Champagne is over-rated at under €50.
And like I said before, the point of socialism is to make everyone rich, not everyone poor.

[Brian and Helen]

And like I said before, the point of socialism is to make everyone rich, not everyone poor.

Couldn't agree more. When is someone going to figure out a way of doing it in practice? So far all efforts seem to have made the poor even poorer (eventually) and left the rich untouched (less eventually).

Brian

[Le Petomane]

May I congratulate the forum on coming to life for the first time in months? This thread certainly beats those endless enquiries like "Does anyone know where I can buy kippers in Cessenon-sur-Orb?".

[catalanglais]

socialism could work better in France than in the UK

Particularly as France hasn't had a socialist president for over twenty years and even his hands were tied for some of the time by a right wing National Assembly.

I totally agree, Le P. A pleasure to read.

[Genghis Cohen]

I am surprised and delighted at the response.

I believe that the problem with modern socialism is all to do with the issue of "rights". Initially socialists set out to establish, and enshrine in law, basic rights. Applicable to all. The right to strike, education at the public expense etc etc. What happens in practice was that they eventually run out of real rights to fight for. So then they started to go for minority rights. And thus create the trap that Orwell had predicted. All citizens are equal, but some are more equal than others

Socialists are heavy on rights but light on responsibilities. Take the example of two individuals who leave school with similar qualifications and go through life having the same opportunities. At retirement one has lived sensibly and within his/her means. Owns their own property, makes very little claim on the state. The other has drunk, smoked, led a spendthrift existence. Is now living in subsidised social housing and claiming a raft of benefits. Is it morally acceptable that the prudent should have to sacrifice to pay for the mistakes of the stupid?

Genghis Cohen

[hesfordj]

I think you need a mix of socialism and capitalism for a system to work. Capitalism favours the strong and the quick and generally encourages competition, meaning that the most able get the best jobs and are rewarded accordingly. It also means that people pay a competitive price for their goods. Socialism provides the safety net and the helping hand to those who lag behind for one reason or another and also to prevent capitalism getting out of hand, notably when it exploits workers or customers unfairly or takes unfair advantage of communal resources. Market forces can't solve every problem, they can only solve market problems. Socialism addresses social problems.

The health-care system is a good example. You need socialism to make sure that everyone has access to the care they need and that employees are rewarded for their work fairly but you need capitalism to ensure that contracts for drugs, equipment and services go to the most competitive contender and that the most able people are recruited. Capitalism also allows those with more money to buy more comforts if they want to. Problems arise where contracts are awarded with a socialist mentality and one company gets to bleed money out of the system for years without fear of competition and administrators are paid more than triage doctors (because the administrators decide the wages). When doctors waiting rooms are full of hypochondriacs and A&E clinics full of drunks and thugs whom it costs nothing. The other side of the coin is where Capitalism decides the level of care you receive to the point where the poor don't have access to basic medicines or treatments, or where cheap, less qualified foreign nurses are brought in to replace locally trained ones or hospitals in poor areas lack the basic facilities of those in more wealthy ones.

[hesfordj]

Socialists are heavy on rights but light on responsibilities. Take the example of two individuals who leave school with similar qualifications and go through life having the same opportunities. At retirement one has lived sensibly and within his/her means. Owns their own property, makes very little claim on the state. The other has drunk, smoked, led a spendthrift existence. Is now living in subsidised social housing and claiming a raft of benefits. Is it morally acceptable that the prudent should have to sacrifice to pay for the mistakes of the stupid?

Genghis Cohen

But why did one smoke, drink and spend? Perhaps they had social problems like a bad marriage or capitalist problems like an overbearing boss or a bad investment. Perhaps he was bullied at school or had a father who beat him or perhaps he was just the life and soul of the party and had a very active social life with loads of friends to whom he was always generous. One could argue that the spendthrift fueled the economy all his working life while the miser kept his money under the mattress and profited nobody.

At the end of the day, would Mr Sensible swap places with Mr Stupid? Is he not content that his situation is so much better but that Mr Stupid is not made to suffer unduly?

[peter]

You could argue that the life long bon viveur has paid a premium to the state in terms of duty and taxes on tobacco and alcohol as well as heavily contributing sales tax on restaurant and entertainment bills.

In addition, creation of employment for the production of tobacco, alcohol, restaurant and entertainment industries contributes to the national economy suggesting that the true bon viveur should be elevated to national hero status.

The current honours system struggles to be meaningful in peace time. Should not the heroic sacrifices made by these bon viveurs be immediately addressed ?

Perhaps the nation should create something similar to the current Chelsea Pensioners establishment (naturally located conveniently close to the West End) as a secure safety net for them. There is nothing as sad as seeing a retired bon viveur reduced to begging on the streets for enough money to buy a decent glass of claret. Surely, the establishment of such a home would be a tribute, however inadequate, to the lifelong dedication of the true bon viveur ?

Many socialist politicians firmly grasp the importance of this concept during their years of service and are able to combine it with their elected functions setting an example to us all.

Perhaps the birth of a new party with broad appeal ?

[gurubarry]

Communism,Socialism, Nazi-ism , all were founded with good intent , and needed at the time of their respective emergence . But ,IMHO ... like Religion , they have been subverted by people for their own profit and power and are now not recognisable as the idealist movements frohuman advancement they were conceived as.
I predicted that my pension would increase in value if the UMP were successful , and am proved right. The UMPs' posturing and blatantly false promises will be swept under the carpet as they elevate their paymasters and benefactors , and I suspect , close friends and Family into positions gaining a fat state pension .

A friend posted a comment on FaceBook ..."Sarkozy and Merkel were called "Merkozy", Hollande and Merkel is "Merde"

Posted from the UMP stronghold of Montpellier...SECOND HIGHEST LOCALTAXES in France .....brace yourselves.

Great Topic

[peter]

Posted from the UMP stronghold of Montpellier...SECOND HIGHEST LOCALTAXES in France .....brace yourselves.

Georges Fresche will not be forgotten ?

At least you've got a 4 line tramway to be proud of ...

All Nimes has got are some trees that have been felled - or not - in preparation for a Mass Transit system.

[gurubarry]

The 5th Lane is coming too Peter ....and even staunch UMP members have begun to realise the folly and start to criticise the acts of flagrant self promotion and excess.
Anyone for a free concert , statue of Lenin , new Town Hall, Archives, free festival for homosexuals,divorcees,one legged dwarves,homeless gerbils? You name it it's donated...except a proper transport system, . Car parks closed, roads blocked, existing ring road bisected by tram lines,businesses ruined by the tram project, huge free junkets, and even sponsoring of a commercial TV series that has now been scrapped after one series....of course, it's OUR money they play with .

I love the climate and the people, but I'm not proud of the ruling socialist party or it's policies ,which to me, smack of a communist regime similar to North Korea.

But I'm not entitled to vote...so I can't effect change .

And the sun was lovely today .....reminds me of the Labour Liverpool Labour Party joke . "I see the sun's out......is it official?"

[Christopher]

The 5th Lane is coming too Peter ....and even staunch UMP members have begun to realise the folly and start to criticise the acts of flagrant self promotion and excess.
Anyone for a free concert , statue of Lenin , new Town Hall, Archives, free festival for homosexuals,divorcees,one legged dwarves,homeless gerbils? You name it it's donated...except a proper transport system, . Car parks closed, roads blocked, existing ring road bisected by tram lines,businesses ruined by the tram project, huge free junkets, and even sponsoring of a commercial TV series that has now been scrapped after one series....of course, it's OUR money they play with .

I love the climate and the people, but I'm not proud of the ruling socialist party or it's policies ,which to me, smack of a communist regime similar to North Korea.

But I'm not entitled to vote...so I can't effect change .

And the sun was lovely today .....reminds me of the Labour Liverpool Labour Party joke . "I see the sun's out......is it official?"

Sounds reasonable. Then again I've only just finished lunch.

[gurubarry]

Was it a FREE Lunch ?

[Brian and Helen]

The 5th Lane is coming too Peter ....and even staunch UMP members have begun to realise the folly and start to criticise the acts of flagrant self promotion and excess.
Anyone for a free concert , statue of Lenin , new Town Hall, Archives, free festival for homosexuals,divorcees,one legged dwarves,homeless gerbils? You name it it's donated...except a proper transport system, . Car parks closed, roads blocked, existing ring road bisected by tram lines,businesses ruined by the tram project, huge free junkets, and even sponsoring of a commercial TV series that has now been scrapped after one series....of course, it's OUR money they play with .

Hey, move 900 miles north and you could be enjoying the splendours of the democratic and popular people's republic of Newham - but with more rain, a sodding great Olympic park in your backyard (complete with embedded missile systems) and a transport system which makes yours look like a veritable Nirvana.

Brian

[gurubarry]

I was there Monday....and as a West Ham Fan am a real Socialist supporter ...LOL ...Good old Socialist Newham are giving the Club £400000 of taxpayers money after the olympic debacle ....wonder who will pay it?

Maybe Georges Fresche left it in his will .

(and a free tram pass for everyone over 85 if accompanied by their Granny)

[Brian and Helen]

a West Ham Fan

Oh, I didn't realise the full depths of your despair - my deepest sympathies.

B

[gurubarry]

We're Goin' UP ! ....with £40000 of taxpayers money....Montpellier should get a bonus from the PS for winning last night too

[peter]

The Telegraph would say this, but it was predictable :

The toppling of Nicolas Sarkozy by François Hollande, the first socialist president to lead the country in 17 years, has sent ripples of fear through the wealthier arrondissements of Paris.
Their new president may block the eurozone austerity advocated by Germany's Angela Merkel, but he is not opposed to his richer citizens feeling the squeeze.
Mr Hollande plans to implement a 75pc tax rate on earnings over €1m (£800,000), on top of a 45pc rate for people making €150,000 or more. He is also expected to raise "wealth taxes" on property assets and end his predecessor's tax incentives to lure bankers back home.

More : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/glob ... rance.html

[gurubarry]

I've saved this weeks "Gazette" with all the promises and threats made by the PS . Interesting reading next May I think. Cameron is having the same scenario ........ another 4 year phase?

Just read it's cheaper to send Greeks by Taxi than on the train .....or tram

[Christopher]

The Telegraph would say this, but it was predictable :

The toppling of Nicolas Sarkozy by François Hollande, the first socialist president to lead the country in 17 years, has sent ripples of fear through the wealthier arrondissements of Paris.
Their new president may block the eurozone austerity advocated by Germany's Angela Merkel, but he is not opposed to his richer citizens feeling the squeeze.
Mr Hollande plans to implement a 75pc tax rate on earnings over €1m (£800,000), on top of a 45pc rate for people making €150,000 or more. He is also expected to raise "wealth taxes" on property assets and end his predecessor's tax incentives to lure bankers back home.

More : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/glob ... rance.html

They quote all these ideas as if they were bad things. Eh?

[gurubarry]

LoL One Mans' meat is another Mans' cow .....

[peter]

There doesn't seem to be many of us left paying tax in France these days ?

Eggs Golden Kill Geese Lay etc

[Brian and Helen]

They quote all these ideas as if they were bad things. Eh?

They are! Totally counter-productive and grossly unfair.
I'm not in that league (by miles), but I certainly would have no intention of sharing my hard-earned with the great unwashed.

Brian

[Christopher]

They quote all these ideas as if they were bad things. Eh?

They are! Totally counter-productive and grossly unfair.
I'm not in that league (by miles), but I certainly would have no intention of sharing my hard-earned with the great unwashed.

Brian

Tough. Bwahahahahaha!